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Re: [ccp4bb] Rfactor got stuck with a data having alternate strong and weak reflections.

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CCP4bb <-- 1999 <-- November 1999 <-- 30 November 1999
Previous message:
Subject: Industrial crystallographer position available
From: Thomas Stout tstout {- at -} EXELIXIS {- dot -} COM
Date: 2009-09-02
Next message:
Subject: Problem in MAKE U POSITIVE
From: Bernhard Rupp br {- at -} RUPPWEB {- dot -} ORG
Date: 2009-09-02


Subject: Re: Rfactor got stuck with a data having alternate strong and weak reflections.
From: Garib Murshudov garib {- at -} YSBL {- dot -} YORK {- dot -} AC {- dot -} UK
Date: 2009-09-02

You may try Andrey Lebedev's Zanuda program from

www.ysbl.york.ac.uk/YSBLPrograms/index.jsp

If the problem is related due to false origin related with the
presence of strong pseudo-translation then this program may be able to
sort this out. In some cases it may also correct space group (if the
problem is related with overmerging)

regards
Garib


On 2 Sep 2009, at 18:34, Peter Cherepanov wrote:

> 1) do you have unexplained peaks in your native Patterson?
> (calculate from your model and compare, if in doubt)
> 2) do you have both streaky and sharp reflections present on a
> subset of your images ?
>
> if answers to both questions are yes, then you might have a case of
> LTD/OD twinning. The latest Acta Cryst D (Sept 2009) has three
> papers dealing with such cases.
> Looking at packing in your solution you should be able to figure out
> the reason for the defect. Test as many crystals as possible: the
> defect fraction is not the same in all crystals, so you might get
> one with lower defect fraction!
>
> good luck,
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> On 2 Sep 2009, at 17:48, Yuan Cheng wrote:
>
>> Eleanor Dodson wrote:
>>> This phenonema doesnt necessarily mean you have lattice-tranlation
>>> defects - pseudo translations are quite common with perfectly good
>>> crystals.
>>> Lattice translation defects usually imply your "crystal" has two
>>> or more
>>> layered different crystals in the beam.. It can be best detected
>>> by an
>>> analysis of the data statistics.
>>>
>>> Eleanor
>>>
>>>
>>> Yuan Cheng wrote:
>>>> Eleanor Dodson wrote:
>>>>> You must have a pseudo translation vector of ~ 0.02 0.5 0.0
>>>>> That relates solution 1 and 2, and 3 and 4.
>>>>>
>>>>> That makes it hard to determine space group - there will be
>>>>> absences
>>>>> along 0k0 because of the translation so the space group could be
>>>>> P 2i
>>>>> 2 2i or P2i 21 2i
>>>>> But which ever SG it is thedata with k odd will be weak, and that
>>>>> means you will have a higher R factor.
>>>>>
>>>>> Eleanor
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Jerry McCully wrote:
>>>>>> Dear all:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am currently refining a structure solved by MAD and
>>>>>> somehow the R factor got stuck around 30% with 2.2 resolution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There are four molecules in one ASU. Two had very good
>>>>>> density map and the other two were not equally good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I tried using NCS during refinement but it did not help
>>>>>> much.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then I checked my data. Actually I found that there are
>>>>>> alternate layers of strong and weak reflections. THe crystal
>>>>>> is in
>>>>>> a thin-plate shape with orthorombic space group.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Then I looked at my molecular replacement solution from Phaser
>>>>>> using my native data.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually phaser gave two sets of solutions, which showed
>>>>>> slightly different positions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You can also see that there is a translation inside the same
>>>>>> set of
>>>>>> solution.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> SOLU SET RFZ=12.8 TFZ=21.4 PAK=0 LLG=452 RFZ=10.7 TFZ=47.9 PAK=0
>>>>>> LLG=1693 RFZ=13.0 TFZ=47.6 PAK=0 LLG=2791 RFZ=10.7 TFZ=46.1 PAK=0
>>>>>> LLG=4045
>>>>>> SOLU 6DIM ENSE ensemble1 EULER 184.052 0.185 175.770 FRAC
>>>>>> -0.49889 -0.00218 -0.00000
>>>>>> SOLU 6DIM ENSE ensemble1 EULER 225.116 0.167 134.696 FRAC
>>>>>> -0.47056 0.49706 0.00051
>>>>>> SOLU 6DIM ENSE ensemble1 EULER 359.333 31.677 180.633 FRAC
>>>>>> 0.75769 -0.71475 -0.14004
>>>>>> SOLU 6DIM ENSE ensemble1 EULER 359.373 31.969 180.711 FRAC
>>>>>> 0.73074 -0.21423 -0.14108
>>>>>> SOLU SET RFZ=12.8 TFZ=21.4 PAK=0 LLG=452 RFZ=10.7 TFZ=47.9 PAK=0
>>>>>> LLG=1693 RFZ=13.0 TFZ=47.6 PAK=0 LLG=2791 RFZ=10.7 TFZ=47.3 PAK=0
>>>>>> LLG=4042
>>>>>> SOLU 6DIM ENSE ensemble1 EULER 213.115 0.173 146.741 FRAC
>>>>>> -0.49931 -0.00269 0.00045
>>>>>> SOLU 6DIM ENSE ensemble1 EULER 248.173 0.254 111.665 FRAC
>>>>>> -0.47091 0.49661 0.00101
>>>>>> SOLU 6DIM ENSE ensemble1 EULER 359.399 31.602 180.578 FRAC
>>>>>> 0.75808 -0.71455 -0.13980
>>>>>> SOLU 6DIM ENSE ensemble1 EULER 359.378 31.255 180.361 FRAC
>>>>>> 0.78370 -0.21555 -0.13830
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I remember there is a discussion in CCP4bb about the same
>>>>>> topic
>>>>>> with the focus of pseudo-symmetry or translational pseudo-
>>>>>> symmetry.
>>>>>> Can anybody give some troubleshooting about my issue?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks a lot and have a nice weekend,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jerry McCully
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________
>>>>>> Windows Live: Keep your friends up to date with what you do
>>>>>> online.
>>>>>> http://windowslive.com/Campaign/SocialNetworking?ocid=PID23285::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:SI_SB_online:082009
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>> Hi Jerry,
>>>> I am having similar trouble with you. You might want to check out
>>>> this paper Acta Cryst.(2005) D61:67-74. It is about lattice-
>>>> tranlation
>>>> defects and how to correct it. Hopefull it is helpful!
>>>> Good Luck!
>>>>
>>>> Yuan
>>>>
>>>>
>> Hi Eleanor,
>> Could you explain a little bit more about how to tell the
>> difference between pseudo-translational symmetry and lattice
>> translation
>> defects? Thanks a lot!
>>
>> Yuan
>

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CCP4bb <-- 1999 <-- November 1999 <-- 30 November 1999
Previous message:
Subject: Industrial crystallographer position available
From: Thomas Stout tstout {- at -} EXELIXIS {- dot -} COM
Date: 2009-09-02
Next message:
Subject: Problem in MAKE U POSITIVE
From: Bernhard Rupp br {- at -} RUPPWEB {- dot -} ORG
Date: 2009-09-02



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