Re: [ccp4bb] Refining against images instead of only reflections

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CCP4bb <-- 1999 <-- November 1999 <-- 30 November 1999

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Subject: Re: Refining against images instead of only reflections
From: "William G {- dot -} Scott" wgscott {- at -} CHEMISTRY {- dot -} UCSC {- dot -} EDU
Date: 2010-01-20

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From: Gabriel Birrane gbirrane {- at -} BIDMC {- dot -} HARVARD {- dot -} EDU
Date: 2010-01-20

Subject: Re: Refining against images instead of only reflections
From: "Herbert J {- dot -} Bernstein" yaya {- at -} BERNSTEIN-PLUS-SONS {- dot -} COM
Date: 2010-01-20

I agree with Bernhard -- both on the soundness of the idea and on
the difficulty in finding the right home for it in NSF or NIH, but
I would suggest giving it a try. -- Herbert

=====================================================
Herbert J. Bernstein, Professor of Computer Science
Dowling College, Kramer Science Center, KSC 121
Idle Hour Blvd, Oakdale, NY, 11769

+1-631-244-3035
yaya@dowling.edu
=====================================================

On Wed, 20 Jan 2010, Bernhard Rupp wrote:

> I think these arguments for image conservation and image *use* are well
> taken.
> The best source of information of what is going on my be the imgCIF
> people, - I'd start with Andy Howard and Herbert Bernstein.
>
> I think that image data (after detector- and configuration-specific
> corrections to the raw images that should be quite accurate) might be
> a good start for such efforts.
>
> I also think that this is a *most interesting area* combining X-ray physics
> and
> biomolecular refinement. This also kills the idea. Because the NSF will
> reject
> any proposal because it has the b-word (bio) in it, and NIH will reject it
> because it has the p-word (physics) in it.
>
> If someone still wants to try, let me know.....
>
> Best, BR
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> The man who follows the crowd will get
> no further than the crowd.
> The man who walks alone will find himself
> in places where no one has been before.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: CCP4 bulletin board [mailto:CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf Of Jacob
> Keller
> Sent: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 9:47 AM
> To: CCP4BB@JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: [ccp4bb] Refining against images instead of only reflections
>
> Dear Crystallographers,
>
> One can see from many posts on this listserve that in any given x-ray
> diffraction experiment, there are more data than merely the diffraction
> spots. Given that we now have vastly increased computational power and data
> storage capability, does it make sense to think about changing the paradigm
> for model refinements? Do we need to "reduce" data anymore? One could
> imagine applying various functions to model the intensity observed at every
> single pixel on the detector. This might be unneccesary in many cases, but
> in some cases, in which there is a lot of diffuse scattering or other
> phenomena, perhaps modelling all of the pixels would really be more true to
> the underlying phenomena? Further, it might be that the gap in R values
> between high- and low-resolution structures would be narrowed significantly,
>
> because we would be able to model the data, i.e., reproduce the images from
> the models, equally well for all cases. More information about the nature of
>
> the underlying macromolecules might really be gleaned this way. Has this
> been discussed yet?
>
> Regards,
>
> Jacob Keller
>
> *******************************************
> Jacob Pearson Keller
> Northwestern University
> Medical Scientist Training Program
> Dallos Laboratory
> F. Searle 1-240
> 2240 Campus Drive
> Evanston IL 60208
> lab: 847.491.2438
> cel: 773.608.9185
> email: j-keller2@northwestern.edu
> *******************************************
>

CCP4bb navigation

CCP4bb <-- 1999 <-- November 1999 <-- 30 November 1999

Previous message:
Subject: Re: Refining against images instead of only reflections
From: "William G {- dot -} Scott" wgscott {- at -} CHEMISTRY {- dot -} UCSC {- dot -} EDU
Date: 2010-01-20

Next message:
Subject: Re: UV microscope for screening
From: Gabriel Birrane gbirrane {- at -} BIDMC {- dot -} HARVARD {- dot -} EDU
Date: 2010-01-20